In an exclusive interview with Prime Time Zone, a federal deputy defended the strengthening of the ‘third way’ and explained why she joined the super request for impeachment: ‘Situation is so absurd that the right was next to the left’
On Wednesday, 30, while senators and spectators of the CPI to Covid-19 listened to the businessman Carlos Wizard repeat, incessantly, that he would remain silent and would not answer questions about his involvement with the so-called “parallel cabinet” to the Ministry of Health, political parties, parliamentarians and civil society representatives filed, in the Chamber of Deputies, the president’s “super request” for impeachment Jair Bolsonaro. The text has 45 signatories and unifies the arguments presented in another 123 requests. In addition to the symbolism of the 271-page document, a fact caught the attention of those following that press conference: in the same act, the PT’s national president were side by side, Gleisi Hoffmann, leaders of left acronyms, and federal deputies Kim Kataguiri (DEM-SP) e Joice Hasselmann (PSL-SP).
The most voted woman for the Chamber of Deputies in 2018 and the second with the most votes among the 513 members of the House, Joice Hasselmann was one of President Jair Bolsonaro’s first-time allies. In two and a half years in office, he was government leader in Congress, leader of the PSL, the party by which the head of the federal executive was elected, and head of the Chamber’s Secretariat for Communication. Today, however, she asks to leave the party for “just cause” and is seen as an arch-enemy of the hard core of pocketnarism. THE Young pan, Hasselmann explains why he signed the super impeachment order, talks about his political future and the viability of the third way for the 2022 presidential election.
Why did you decide to sign this super request for impeachment? I had already submitted a request at the time of Sergio Moro’s departure, so the idea didn’t come out of my hat, it didn’t come overnight. At the time, the argument was open interference in the Feral Police. When we reached the mark of a hundred orders sitting in the Chamber drawer, without Rodrigo Maia or Arthur Lira doing anything, this idea came up and Freixo [deputado federal pelo PSOL] he came to me and told us to put our differences aside. This was before this Covaxin scandal, the “Covaxingate”. We began to work with the new request, very carefully, so that the ideological tone of the requests from the left, the natural opposition to the government, was removed. My order, the Fleet orders [deputado federal pelo PSDB] and the MBL request were technical requests. The excess of ideology was removed to serve everyone. In the midst of this, the scandal of overpricing of vaccines exploded. And then we realized that the president was not just a denialist. He was a “negotiationist”: facilities were created for them to earn money on the lives of more than 500 thousand Brazilians who lost their lives. It would be hypocritical of me to cross my arms just because people on the left signed the order.
At any point in your life, did you imagine yourself on the same platform as deputy Gleisi Hoffman and other left-wing parliamentarians, such as deputy Alessandro Molon? It wasn’t a platform. It was a press conference. And I made a point of emphasizing that we were removing the ideological issue. But I never imagined being with them in an act, anyone. For you to have an idea of the situation in Brazil. In any serious country, Bolsonaro would have already been removed from power and imprisoned. Him and his children. The situation is so absurd and unimaginable that he puts an admittedly right-wing person next to a left-wing person I have always fought against. I came out of the exempt journalist’s closet and assumed the flag for the impeachment of Dilma, I went around the country fighting for it, but now I am campaigning for the impeachment of Bolsonaro. I can’t just be consistent with my ideological enemies. I have to be coherent and fight crimes that also occur in my ideological spectrum.
You were the government leader in Congress and represented the government at a time when relations with Parliament were not friendly. Since then, Bolsonaro has faced several crises. Is the president’s worst moment in office? Yes. At the time when I was leading the government and carrying the team on my back, there was no such base and yet we achieved political miracles. I handed over the Social Security reform and had votes in the opposition, the result of working 20 hours a day. Since then, the victories have been on the basis of take there, give here. In addition to being an incompetent government, it is the rule of a mole. We knew he was a mole, but we found out that the mole is dishonest.
Most of the signatories of the request are linked to left-wing parties, but you, deputy Kim, linked to the MBL, and deputy Alexandre Frota, now at the PSDB, also signed. Could this act be a seed for the right and center-right to also endorse this cause? It’s a seed. After they saw that there were two other representatives from the right, the PSDB took a stand for impeachment, calling on people to take to the streets. We need to take a stand and have courage. It’s hard to take a stand not being the natural opposition, but people are coming off the wall. I believe that there will be an uprising in Brazil, a union of people who think in the country, aligned with the center, with the center-right and with the real conservatives, not the reactionaries, as the Pocketnarists are.
Are you going to participate in the acts against the president this Saturday? It is difficult to participate in the acts at this time, because of the crowd. I cannot criticize the crowding and the President’s conduct, but crowding. But immunization is at a fast pace here in São Paulo. As soon as there are more people immunized, we can call the acts and count on the participation of those who will be immunized. I believe that with 10 more days we will have a better scenario.
The government’s marriage to the Centrão makes us think that there are no votes for impeachment. In your opinion, what are the chances of a process to prosper? It’s not marriage, it’s a lease. Bolsonaro pays rent to the Centrão to remain in the presidency. This is expensive. It involves public banks, state, offices, ministries. This cost the country R$ 200 billion. It pays to stay, it’s a rented basis, not bought. One hour this money will dry up. It’s impossible to keep this. With the president’s weariness and the results pointed out by the polls with a minimum of seriousness, the Centrão will do what it has always done: it will take everything it can, it will bring the amendments and spaces to itself, and when the president loses the power to pay rent, they’ll jump off the boat. I believe we will have this scenario until October this year.
Some say that some political actors only started supporting the impeachment because they realized that the third way will only have strength if President Bolsonaro is ineligible. Isn’t that opportunism? How can we say that whoever defends Bolsonaro’s impeachment is opportunist if he has a bigger track record than all former presidents? If we put Collor, Fernando Henrique Cardoso, Lula and Dilma together, there is not the amount of crimes committed in two and a half years by this president. Opportunistic is that part of Congress that takes juicy chunks of that fat ox that is the Budget. Opportunistic is keeping him in power to leave the government bleeding. Bolsonaro did not just commit crimes of responsibility. He committed common crimes, attacked the existence of the Union, by coming into conflict with countries that could send vaccines far earlier. We have a serial killer in the presidency. It’s silly to talk about opportunism. The third way needs to stop fighting each other. It looks like a bunch of kids fighting to see who gets the paper airplane. We need a definition. Is it Doria? I’ve been Doria since I was little. Is it Tasso Jereissati? I am Tasso. Is it Eduardo Leite? I’m Milk. Is it Mandetta, is it Moro? I’m with them. We need someone who represents the more than 50% of Brazilians who are “neither-nor”. Neither Lula nor Bolsonaro.
Which one has more strength to represent the third way? It’s too early to take chances. I spoke with former president Michel Temer, with João Doria, with Eduardo Leite. I keep in touch to see if we can rush this name. Politics is something that changes quickly. A single act raises or lowers popularity. We have a year and a half until the election. It seems like a short time, but those who say this do not look at recent politics. If we don’t take the third way to the second round, Lula is president. Vote for Bolsonaro, send them both to the second round and we’ll have Lula as president.
Former President Fernando Henrique Cardoso and Deputy Rodrigo Maia have already said they would vote for Lula in an eventual runoff against Bolsonaro. And you lady? You can’t ask me to choose whether I want to die with a shot to the middle of the chest or a grenade in my lap. I do not want to die. I’m going to fight with all my strength so that we don’t have a second round between Lula and Bolsonaro.
And if we do? You’re not going to Paris, are you? If I only thought about myself, I could take a plane, go to another country, return to Brazil and act like certain commentators. I can’t just think about me. I stay here even if the third way doesn’t win. I can guarantee that I will be opposed to any of them.
What are your plans? Will you seek re-election in 2022? I was government leader in Congress, party leader [PSL] and head of Secom da Câmara. That’s a lot for a first-term deputy, the most voted woman in the Chamber. In two and a half years, I lived what many have not lived in 30 years. I reported big projects, they weren’t small stories. I would naturally leave as a deputy. But I am leaving the PSL and there is a relationship with other parties so that I can run my candidacy for the Senate. Today I am a pre-candidate for the Senate. It is likely that I will leave in São Paulo. I am close to the PSDB, the national president of the party, Bruno Araújo, has already invited me, Governor João Doria endorsed it, but I also talk with the DEM, with Podemos, I opened a conversation with the MDB, but I still haven’t made up my mind.